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You've probably at least seen:

http://florianjensen.com/2008/01/17/aol-adopting-xmpp-aka-jabber/

 

So I played with this a little yesterday .. very cool!  I certainly hope that AOL does indeed go through with this and embrace XMPP!  Based off my experience with OSCAR and XMPP, they -could- accomplish everything they're currently doing with OSCAR with XMPP.  Do they want to?  Is this simply a gateway to their AIM and ICQ services?  Who knows, but it's good to see!  I would imagine AOL has already seen how excited folk are about this, probably by their poor test server getting suddenly wailed on.  I can only hope they won't decide this is a bad idea.  The thing is, people like to use AIM and ICQ.  People like to use XMPP.  Why do they have to be at odds?  AOL's take on how chatting should work could bring wonderful improvements to XMPP overall.  I think Google's joining the fray did a lot of good for XMPP in general in terms of XEPs that came about because of it and such.  And people like me wouldn't be spending so much time building transports or multi-protocol clients if we didn't at some level like the services we were connecting to.  For example, I don't hate AIM.  I simply like a lot of protocols and don't want to run 8 different chat clients on my desktop.  I also think the OSCAR protocol is interesting, as are the other protocols, so I wanted to learn more about them.  Does that mean I'm out to make XMPP overtake AIM?  Hell no.  To be frank, it would be a happy day to me if the transports were no longer necessary, if people on AOL's servers could chat with people on my own server and on jabber.org's server and on lots of others without having to figure out the protocols.  Does this mean no one would try to dissect the protocols anymore?  Probably not.  Part of the drive of that is learning and understanding.  It doesn't have to be about trying to circumvent.

 

Imagine if AOL decided they really liked XMPP overall and ditched OSCAR though.  That would hose old clients.  But what if they released a new client that spoke XMPP while keeping their old servers going?  Furthermore, what if that client could point at other servers than AOLs.  Now AOL has a nice client or two out there for any XMPP clients to use.  That's kinda cool!  There's plenty of great XMPP servers out there at this point.  The client choices in general are a little lacking.  Spark, of which I'm in charge of nowadays, is pretty, it's cross platform, but it's a beast.  Java is not necessarily great in terms of small memory footprint.  Coccinella has a lot of cool features but it's Tcl/Tk and I've never liked the "feel" of Tcl/Tk.  Google Talk, there's not a version for my OS, so what good does it do me.  iChat...  nothing personal Apple but I've never liked it.  I can't put my finger on why really.  It's also hard to explain why I don't use Psi for everyday use.  I love it for development.  Nothing is better IMO.  But for some reason it didn't feel simple enough to be something I want to use as a regular client.  Adium X and Pidgin?  It's the primary client I use but it lacks a lot of XMPP functionality (though it's definitely improving on that front)  All of these are good clients, and have good followings, but there's still a lot of room for other 'entries' to come into the mix.  Nothing seems to "do it" for everyone yet.  Of course, who knows if that will ever happen.  But seriously AOL, I'd love to see you throw your hat into the mix!

 

Now what about MSN and Yahoo and others?  Yahoo, I could see them possibly embracing XMPP.  Hell they bought Zimbra and Zimbra's suite has XMPP capabilities nowadays, so they have some bought expertise there.  MSN on the other hand, they sell a product (LCS? OCS?  whatever it is) that may be a good drive -not- to embrace XMPP.  I don't know much about OCS or LCS though.

 

Overall though, this kind of reminds me of e-mail.  Everyone can have their own implementations of email services and such, that doesn't mean we can't all speak the same language!  AOL, I hope you take all this attention as a compliment!  I think we're all proud and pleased to see you express an interest in XMPP and maybe join the family!!!

Tags: oscar, aim, icq, xmpp


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Jan 19, 2008 9:40 AM Guest Pedro Melo  says:

It seems to me that you are a Mac user.

 

If that is true, you could also look at SAPO Messenger for Mac. It uses the Psi core, but its all Cocoa.

 

http://trac.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/sapo_msg_mac/

 

Best regards,

 

Jan 19, 2008 9:57 AM Guest sander  says:

"Coccinella has a lot of cool features but it's Tcl/Tk and I've never liked the "feel" of Tcl/Tk."

 

Can you define what you mean with "feel"? Mats is doing magic with Tcl/Tk. Just download the latest aMSN and the latest Coccinella 0.96.4.1 and compare the interface of both. Your feedback is needed so that Mats can do more magic spells! Feel free to carp on any detail you want; it's this kind if feedback we need..."feel" is too vague PS: not that in every Coccinella release there are small improvements in the interface. Next Coccinella version will switch to Tcl/Tk 8.5 for example and thus have better fonts amongst other UI improvements.

 

Last but not least, you also can tune Coccinella's interface to a large extend: my last blog post is onlya small example of what is possible. This is some other secret magic for branding Coccinella: http://coccinella.im/stuff/configs.txt Also you can change colors of themes, change line thickness, and so forth.

 

"It's also hard to explain why I don't use Psi for everyday use. I love it for development."

 

Note that although Coccinella is not made for developmen, it is written in a scripting language which means you can use commands instead of sending plain XML. Oh yes, and Coccinella also has a hidden XML console since a few releases ago.

 

Any feedback welcome...we want to convert Coccinella into a popular client for people on AOL's service

 

Jan 19, 2008 11:19 AM Guest Daniel Henninger  says:

Huh, had never heard of it!  Will check it out!  Thanks for the pointer!

 

Jan 19, 2008 11:39 AM Guest Daniel Henninger  says:

Well I mean, first time I run it, it didn't start.  Got stuck during "loading QuicktimeTcl".  Next time it started ok but when I went to preferences it took 15 seconds to fire up the window.  But all in all, I recognize Tcl/Tk too easily.  I used to do a lot of Tk coding and there's "isms" about it that I notice that bug me, mainly because I have bad memories of trying to get rid of them.    I don't know what scramble password is, but me and a coworker in my previous job spent a long time trying to figure out what that was and turning it off ended up doing the trick to log into the server we were connecting to.   (and yet it was set to on by default)

 

This one might be a simple fix.  In OS X, it's always preferrable to embrace the preferences dialog under the .. "primary application menu"  forget the real term for it.  So if I click on Coccinella itself up in the menu bar, it should have preferences there.  (instead of under File) 

 

It was hard to figure out where I needed to go to set myself available.  When I found it, it popped up a login dialog box?  Why?  What is the grey bar at the bottom of the roster?  If It's because my password had changed since the last time I used Coccinella, why did I not see an error?  What is mAboutQuickTimeTcl under the main menubar entry?    Upon logging in I got a stack trace error.  I click details and it does nothing at first.  Second click does it:

 

Hook newMessageHook failed: 1

can't read "body": no such variable

    while executing

"if {$jprefs(chat,normalAsChat) && ($body ne "")} {

     GotMsg $xmldata

    }"

    (procedure "::Chat::GotNormalMsg" line 6)

    invoked from within

"::Chat::GotNormalMsg {message {from XXX@vorpalcloud.org id XXX@vorpalcloud.org__daniel@vorpalcloud.org__LoB39 to daniel@vorpalcloud.org/Coccinella..."

    ("eval" body line 1)

    invoked from within

"eval $func $args"

can't read "body": no such variable

    while executing

"if {$jprefs(chat,normalAsChat) && ($body ne "")} {

     GotMsg $xmldata

    }"

    (procedure "::Chat::GotNormalMsg" line 6)

    invoked from within

"::Chat::GotNormalMsg {message {from XXX@vorpalcloud.org id XXX@vorpalcloud.org__daniel@vorpalcloud.org__LoB39 to daniel@vorpalcloud.org/Coccinella..."

    ("eval" body line 1)

    invoked from within

"eval $func $args"

 

Actually I can't even break out of this to use it so...  oh well.  =(  That one is clearly a bug, not just a preference.  In general, Tcl/Tk has always felt "fragile" to me.  It's one of those things that's never proven itself to me as something I want to use regularly.  (Tcl/Tk apps in general I mean)  At some level, it's hard to get over past pains of Tcl/Tk programming.  ;D

 

Thing is, much like other XMPP clients, I like Coccinella, But also like other XMPP clients, there's "always something".  =)

 

Jan 19, 2008 11:55 AM Guest Pedro Melo  says:

Well, we have been flying a lot under the radar

 

Jan 19, 2008 3:25 PM Guest Daniel Henninger  says:

Wow, this is really nice!  It does have a really nice feel to it.  Why are y'all staying under the radar?  It looks like some great work!  I don't really "get" the SMS part, but maybe that's part of a special service?

 

Jan 19, 2008 3:38 PM Guest Pedro Melo  says:

Hi,

 

well, we don't feel it's ready yet

 

At least we want ticket 145 closed before talking more about it. Also we lack designer skills and our usual designer is overworked...

 

SMS is short message system, mobile phone texting. We have bi-direcional gateway with the portuguese mobile operators, so you can actually chat with mobile phones using SMS.

 

Its only available if you have an SAPO account though.

 

Best regards,

 

Jan 19, 2008 5:11 PM Guest sander  says:

"It was hard to figure out where I needed to go to set myself available. When I found it, it popped up a login dialog box? Why?"

 

What do you mean with this? Obviously, you need to be online before the state can be set to available. There is an auto-login on Coccinella startup option if you mean that. What exactly do you want to be changed here? Sending messages without going online first will be hard as you know ;-D Suggestions welcome.

 

PS: I will answer the other suggestions when I got an answer from Mats. Thx for the suggestions.

 

Jan 19, 2008 5:23 PM Guest Daniel Henninger  says:

chuckle  At the end of the day man, I really don't have a lot of time to spend helping improve Coccinella.  I will say that Coccinella started up, showed me a roster with a unavailable 'icon' at the bottom.  Once I pressed that, it popped up a login box.  It clearly remembered my login information from before, even though it was wrong.  I either expected to see on startup a login box, or.. something.  It just wasn't clear that that clear ball was wha was telling me i was unavailable at first.

 

Anyway, please let Mats know I think he's done a great job, but you did ask for me to brain dump "issues".    So I did.

 

Jan 24, 2008 1:51 AM Guest machekku  says:

Maybe this was the 803rd post about this but it was the 1st I really enjoyed reading. All these "host; port; uin@aol.com; OMG!!!" posts were really making me tired already

Thanks for writing.

 

May 1, 2008 4:54 AM Guest sander  says:

As promised:

 

1) 'Got stuck during "loading QuicktimeTcl"'

-->should be fixed

 

2) 'it took 15 seconds to fire up the window'

-->if you were running Coccinella on an Intel Mac, it now is much faster thanks to native Intel binaries and thus no need to f*cking slow Roseta. The switch to Tcl/Tk 8.5 also means a speed improvement of 10%.

 

3) 'I recognize Tcl/Tk too easily'

-->improved. E.g. chasing arrows look native now, you can hide toolbars the Mac way,...

 

4) 'I don't know what scramble password is'

-->there now is a bug report for this to increase usability, not fixed yet

 

5) 'In OS X, it's always preferrable to embrace the preferences dialog under the .. "primary application menu"'

-->fixed

 

6) 'What is mAboutQuickTimeTcl under the main menubar entry'

-->fixed

 

7) 'What is the grey bar at the bottom of the roster?'

-->you now can click on it and see what it can be used for

 

8) 'Upon logging in I got a stack trace error'

-->should be fixed

 

9) Logging on process too difficult

-->not fixed, increasing usability of the Login process means messing with several parts of Coccinella (Log in dialog, New Account dialog, roster maybe, Profiles dialog, etc) and that's a huge task that can take some more Coccinella releases before it is fixed

 

Conclusion:

'I like Coccinella, But also like other XMPP clients, there's "always something"'

-->feel free to contribute new "always somethings" to replace the fixed ones

 

PS: you'll love the way your transports are integrated in the new Coccinella 0.96.8